Daniel - More Discussion on Forgiveness - Feb 10, 1995 - Pocatello, ID

Group: Pocatello, Idaho

Teachers: Daniel, Tomas

Topic: More On Forgiveness

February 10,1995

Opening prayer

Daniel: "Good evening my friends, I am Daniel, your guide and teacher. It is our pleasure, Tomas and I, to be amongst you again this week.

As the weeks continue to pass by so do the experiences you incur throughout the week pass through the trials, the struggles and the joys that are part of your human adventure, which on a different scale is a part of your divine adventure of soul growth. If you will recall from your reading of the book Christ Michael's admonishment to His apostles, disciples, and followers was that even though they had discovered truth, even though they had understood on a greater level than any up to that time, and given that the experiences of life can be understood from a different perspective, that a person is not cursed with illness, poverty, or the like because of wrongdoing or the revenge of a god. But rather that their understanding was to know that even though truth is known so does the unfolding of temporal life include all emotions, all actions, all ramifications of living on a material plane. Therefor is experience, then, essential to your understanding, essential to your growth, essential to your character building. Understanding truth affords you great tools with which to view the unfoldings of life in order that you can handle these unfoldings with richer and greater judgment, richer and greater understanding, richer and greater action.

This week our lesson will again focus on forgiveness. It is through this very act that you as a mortal rise further above mortal existence into a plane of spiritual understanding. The discussion this week will continue to address the issue of forgiving one another, individually and collectively.

When you conceive of forgiveness there occurs in your innermost being, in your core, a barrier, a wall, a dividing post. This understanding that there is a need for forgiveness has brought you up from a lower state of not wanting to forgive or not knowing that you should forgive. We will not focus on that at the moment. Rather we will focus on looking at this wall or barrier that becomes erected when you consider the act of forgiving.

The nature of this wall, this barrier, consists mostly of fear, consists of hostility or anger, consists of lack of knowledge and understanding, and consists of lack of a desire to forgive. Forgiveness, then, must be viewed as a part of emotion. Once you have identified the need to forgive then these emotions or lack of knowledge are those things which build the wall, create that division between you and your fellow brothers or sisters, or between you and the other one. This lack of forgiveness also divides and separates you greatly from the Source through which all forgiveness can readily be rectified.

In this discourse this evening let us look at these various roadblocks in order that you can begin to consciously practice and question your own self and your motive when it comes to your own ability to forgive.

First one must consider that the greatest error in forgiving is to not comprehend that this lack of forgiving separates you from God. More often than you all can realize you have, and your fellow mankind/womenkind have separated yourselves from the Source. There is within the mind and emotions a sense of emptiness, often not understood by the individual. They cannot understand why this emptiness has manifested itself. It is because they have not only cut themselves off from their relationships with another, but most importantly from their relationship with God, often unconsciously. And so, my friends, whenever you understand that there is a need to forgive know that the act of forgiveness is extremely important in order to break down that separation between you and the Source, between you and God.

Once you have understood this you are more willing to go into the stillness to seek nurturing, that the other barriers that separate you in this relationship to your fellow brothers and sisters are dissolved. You are thereby given in this stillness divine direction, a sense of security, and the ability to forgive.

The emotion of fear arises in forgiveness from the fact that by forgiving you are placing yourself in a vulnerable situation. It is he/she who is fortified with inner guidance that can withstand this vulnerability and let go of the fear that prevents you from taking steps towards forgiveness.

In consideration of forgiveness one is forced to look at the situation in which hostilities, anger, and misunderstanding have arisen. It is painful to re-experience that which has transpired but it is a necessary step in order for you to understand that forgiveness is possible. Whenever you can understand the 'why' of any situation you are better able to accept, better able to implement action, and better able to place in motion those things necessary in order for forgiveness to evolve. The ability to recognize these characteristics becomes easier the more you place yourself in the situation of wanting to forgive.

It is important that even though you can understand what has transpired, even though you can see the motive of the person you need to forgive, even with this understanding there is another step you must take. And that is to begin again to love that person for himself/herself as a member of the family of the First Source and Center.

All mortals, all individuals with free will are capable of error, are capable of inflicting pain and hurt on one another. It is he/she who is driven and led by the Inner Guide that sees beyond the perpetration into a grander perspective, a divine perspective; and in this divine perspective are love and mercy overshadowing any atrocities committed. It is, of course, part of a group function to forgive individually and collectively while at the same time administering fairly the consequences of an act.

The ability to put aside your hurt transforms you, strengthens you, and allows for the forgiveness procedure to begin and work through its stages to completion.

It is not always possible for you the mortal to forgive immediately the first time around, especially when the hurt is deep. Through successive 'mindstorming' and heartfelt desire to forgive the inability to let go of the past will be overcome and you will be able to move on. Forgiveness requires work. Real forgiveness cannot just be off the cuff flippant language. Real forgiveness is felt through the whole of your being, mindally, physically, emotionally and even spiritually. It is part of working through this forgiveness in all of these areas that the forgiveness truly becomes integrated, effective, and eventually there is complete forgiveness.

If one part of your being is hesitant then forgiveness cannot be totally complete at this time. Spiritual forgiveness is, of course, one of the first areas that forgives most readily and easily for it is a greater perspective than is mindal, emotional, or physical.

At this point I will conclude my remarks and allow Tomas a chance to communicate with you."

Tomas: "Greetings friends. It is a pleasure to greet you thus. I have been savoring Daniel's lesson and the solidarity and fluidity of this evening's session. I have a remark or two to contribute to Daniel's lesson on forgiveness. These words are merely to reiterate some of the things he has discussed.

The intellect is clever at hiding the emotions. Often your angers, resentments and hurt feelings are submerged under an intellectual facade that nothing is the matter, that there is nothing to forgive. Indeed if you seek not to find further love depth with that individual or situation there is little reason for your intellect to be denied. However, you spirit will to that extent suffer the paucity of not knowing that individual or situation as a reality in your life.

You might begin to discern areas where forgiveness could be a viable exercise of a God seeking soul such as yourself if you hear your remarks and intonations in discourse when that person or that subject comes up. Is there an edge of hostility unaware even to yourself? Is there rather an intellectual acknowledgment of emotional pain perceived in your own social intercourse, how you bear ill will which you are not aware of?

The exercise is for you alone and for your personal development, for the gains which will be made for you, for your society, and for our mission. As you learn and put into practice these laws they become part and parcel of your environment, for your seed has been planted and will grow. I have no additional remarks at this time. I return the platform to teacher Daniel."

Daniel: "Tomas' words have helped to solidify and create a vision that will benefit you in this exercise of forgiving. There has been stated some important ideas that we ask you to consider, to contemplate and to put into action. It is important for you to realize that forgiving is not a one time shot. It is an ongoing process, for you will find that throughout life you are afforded many, many opportunities to step forward and follow Father's will. Those who daily commit and dedicate themselves to understanding and desiring to follow are more aware and more sensitive to the need to forgive. Therefor to all of you, you undoubtedly will find yourselves forgiving seventy times seven.

An analogy to this would be the student in the classroom who is a good student, who is a curious student, who always has the homework, who always sees there is more to do. But the less motivated and less adept student is not aware of what needs to be done. And so you will find yourselves seeing instances where forgiveness is important, forgiveness is necessary. This lesson this evening is now concluded. The floor is open for questions."

Nancy: "Good evening Daniel and Tomas. I have no questions at this time. I just wanted to tell you I felt that was a remarkable lesson tonight. I am looking forward to contemplating your words this weekend. I am beginning to examine the need for forgiveness in my life again. That is something I have put on a back burner more recently. So thank you."

Daniel: "Your words are noted. Our presence will be with you all this week during your attempts, your exercising of forgiveness. It is truly a study. It is and does behoove you all to acknowledge the many facets and areas involved in the simple act of forgiveness. This simple act becomes a very powerful act upon its completion."

Barbara: "This is a question that Karen wanted asked. The infrequent incidents of deaths reported as spontaneous combustion like the lady in Hagerman in the 1960s that burned in her bed without the bed or the house burning, are they instances of fusion?"

Daniel: "Fusion has occurred on this planet and throughout the ages. Its frequency, of course, is rare in comparison to the population. However, this does not negate the fact that many mortals on this plane have throughout the ages attained their circles and are continuing to achieve this act even more so in this present day. And so while fusion has not been completed in this lifetime the ability to achieve the first circle does show that this planet will be seeing and witnessing more fusion in the future.

We been asked not to comment specifically or in great detail regarding certain instances, for the importance of our mission is to support you and provide you with the tools that will further your own spiritual and soul growth. It is a part of the curiosity of human nature to wonder and to want to know about these seemingly extraordinary events. Understand that, indeed, fusion occurs and will grow in proportion as the evolution of humanity progresses and spirituality becomes more integrated into the material framework, thought work and emotions. That is all."

Bill: "Daniel and Tomas, this is Bill. And I would agree with the assessment made by Nancy that this is a profound lesson. And since it started a few moments ago I have been thinking about one of the aspects that you mentioned, Daniel, which is the aspect of understanding. I have noticed this in myself and I have heard it said by others. There seems to be a correlation, some connection between an understanding of motivation and a willingness to forgive. When people recite the acts of atrocity of others and make comments as, 'I could never forgive that' I get the sense that it is because they can't understand how another human person could do such a thing. On the other hand, merely understanding the motivation does not necessarily result in forgiveness, for some people may understand why they do something but not forgive themselves for it. So those are some thoughts that I had running through my mind as I was contemplating your topic. I would like you to comment on those if you would desire to."

Daniel: "Thank you, Bill, for that question. It brings up another important aspect of the act of forgiving. In my lesson this evening I said that there are various areas that are involved in being able to let go and forgive. It is often necessary that an individual work through all of those areas in order for them to come full circle and be able to let go and forgive.

Through the understanding that forgiveness is necessary a first step has been made. Going into stillness, asking for help and guidance in this matter, reinforces the individual so that further steps may be taken in forgiving: understanding the motivation and working through the anger, the hostility, working through the pain and hurt that is inflicted and felt, working through one's own fear and vulnerability, working through one's own inability to let go. In some instances the act of forgiveness must go through many phases, many stages. Other times the act of forgiveness can be almost spontaneous and readily able to be given. Does this further your understanding of forgiveness?"

Bill: "Yes, I certainly agree with all you have said. I was thinking of an example of one of the points I was interested in. And the example is a person named Virginia Satir who is no longer on a mortal plane but was a great social worker and well known in her field. She gave a workshop at ISU that I attended and said that in order for someone to do counseling with somebody else you had to be able to understand how that person could do whatever it was that required the counseling. She said the most difficult client she ever had was a woman who had taken her infant baby and put her in a furnace to be consumed. She said before she could counsel that woman she had to come to the place where she could understand that she, Virginia Satir, could have done such a thing. And when she related this at the time it was pretty impressive and moving.

I am assuming that when she said she could do counseling she meant she could be in a state of forgiveness toward this woman in regards to this act. And that was part of what I was thinking about."

Daniel: "Indeed your perception in this instance is correct. All individuals must realize that until you have reached perfection and are pure spirit there is always chance of error. Consider your own planet and the two defaults on this planet and you will begin to further see that, indeed, all are capable of all aspects of good, all aspects of evil. One must remember, 'Judge not'. For you most certainly have only walked in your shoes."

Bill: "Thank you very much Daniel. I guess, then, that leads to the idea that if we believe we can't do such an atrocity then we can't forgive such an atrocity and that's a roadblock to forgiveness."

Daniel: "It becomes very difficult, if almost impossible, for forgiveness requires one to not be in a position of judging and executing to the degree that one cannot see hope. Is this understood?"

Bill: "Yes."

Tomas: "Let me jump in and say that you have spoken of atrocities and these have great dynamics. And yet in the realm of forgiveness perhaps the greater danger lies in those simple human instances of being unforgiving of general mortality, regular human frailties and even those things about which no one can do anything. How deep is your sense of outrage at someone who is poor or ugly or rich or fat or etc.? These simple things comprise a huge cloud of darkness on Urantia. The atrocities of alienation are real in everyone's lives. The ignorant and deformed and lost and those of other races, other genders, other sexual orientations, other nationalities are all human beings, all part of your family. And how great is the realm of unforgiving of your own fellows! This is so acceptable in so much of your society that it is glossed over and condoned. But this unbending, unyielding, unloving attitude of one human toward another is unacceptable for progress and Light and Life.

So although the most obvious areas of forgiveness are usually the more dramatic bear in mind the full spectrum of forgiveness. For the simple elements of your relationship with your neighbors and their dog is what creates Paradise here in time and space. Thank you."

Bill: "I just have to say, that was absolutely fabulous, Tomas. And thank you for broadening the perspective to include what we would so easily gloss over. I'll stop talking and let somebody else talk."

Nancy: "That was a fabulous response. But I have a question from the earlier discussion. I can understand forgiveness spiritually, emotionally, and mentally, but I am not sure what it means to forgive physically. My mind has been searching and what I have come up with is the idea that memories remain in our muscles and perhaps they must be released. Is that what you have in mind? Or, anyway, would you address what it means to forgive physically?"

Daniel: "Indeed many of the offenses inflicted upon a person are of a physical nature. And these offenses are a violation to the total integrated mortal. And those things which are felt in the body are likewise recorded in the subconscious. Therefore forgiveness in completion must encompass the body's willingness to desensitize and allow forgiveness so that in that healing there is also healing within the subconscious and vice versa. The mortal being is capable of great feats and great defeats. As Tomas has stated earlier, do not be fooled by the intellect regarding forgiveness. Realize there are other things besides the intellect involved in forgiving."

Nancy: "Thank you Daniel. I am thinking about how one goes about this. As I have been thinking about it these thoughts have occurred to me: that one forgives emotionally by allowing oneself to experience the feelings and then let them go; that one forgives intellectually by coming into understanding as Dad pointed out; I'm not really sure how one forgives spiritually, I think that occurs by turning over one's willingness and sitting in the quiet; but I am not sure about how one goes about forgiving physically other than, perhaps, such techniques as Lothar has been working with me which are 'cranials'. Is my understanding of these approaches to forgiveness at all valid? Or am I way off base?"

Daniel: "Most certainly have you, in your logical and understanding mind, categorized these very neatly into packages. And the aspect of healing physically can come about through that of which you speak, cranials. However one must realize not all people are afforded such luxury! Therefor there are other ways of healing physically.

First and foremost is through the other areas that we have spoken of. In these areas coming to completion is there fed through the electro-chemical mechanism of the body a freeing feeling that encourages and affords the body the ability to release and let go. It is very much tied in with the emotions, with the ability to release anger and hostility, to the ability to not be fearful or vulnerable, and, of course, through the ability of understanding. In this area one can visualize and speak to the body about healing, about forgiving and letting go. In the majority of cases of forgiving, however, the body has not been so wounded. And so it remains intact and part of the integration of the whole. Does this help?"

Nancy: "That was very helpful. Thank you very much for the entire evening."

Norman: "Daniel, this is Norman. This is one of my rare questions. It seems to me that as you have been speaking one of the barriers that we put up ourselves in many cases involving forgiveness is a fervent desire for the one who did the wrong, (we'll call that person the unforgiven), to come to us and ask for forgiveness. Then it clears the path for us to give it. And it implies another thing, that if we can overcome that barrier, that the other aspect of it is, having overcome that barrier we have no constraints to ask for forgiveness if we are the wrongdoer. And is not this a natural consequence and almost a given, that this would occur?"

Daniel: "Understood. Indeed, one who has the experience of forgiving is much more readily able to ask for forgiveness when they have erred. One who has gone through the experience of forgiving understands full well the beautiful act of already being forgiven by the First Source and Center for their actions. This also reinforces, then, their ability to seek forgiveness in their material life, in their relationships with their brothers and sisters. It is always hardest to forgive deeply the first time, but becomes easier as you repeat the experience of forgiving. One aspect, however, that I will address regarding your statement is this.

Often times when you find you must forgive you are not sought by the unforgiven, as you stated, and it becomes then an individual chore where you must forgive even when forgiveness has not been sought. Sometimes those who inflict the pain are not even aware or are not able to grasp what they have done. They are not capable at this point to ask for forgiveness. But in order for you to grow and carry on you must forgive despite that which is coming to you from the other person. Are you seeing?"

Norman: "Yes, I am seeing. And another aspect that occurred to me is if the lack of forgiveness can be a barrier to the true seeking of the quietness and the stillness and the growing together with the First Source or the internal Adjuster, then would it not also be a barrier if, then, a need to seek forgiveness is undone? Even if we are possibly aware that the person who might be considering us a wrongdoer is not aware or even thinking of it any longer. Is it a barrier for us not to go and ask for forgiveness as well?"

Daniel: "Certainly. For in asking for forgiveness you are allowing for your own growth and healing to take place. It is a barrier when one fails to attempt to seek forgiveness when it is not asked or sought or the offense possibly forgiven. Each of you in your own personal lives have known those times when you have erred and have had to decide how to handle the situation to face it and ask forgiveness or to avoid it, to pretend it does not exist, to run away. The latter two are barriers. Facing the situation helps to break that barrier down.

Another point which I would like to make is this. Often when one has erred there is guilt and shame. The presence and the feelings of guilt and shame cause a person who is so conditioned by the past to tend to want to hide because they fear the reprisals and the consequences of their actions. The act of hiding, feeling guilty and harboring this fear is, indeed, a double error in the act of forgiving for it is this double act that causes one to shut themselves off from divine guidance and nurturing. Understand that God is a loving and merciful God, that error is part of the human experience, that willful and continual error leads to sin and iniquity (which is not a part of what we are discussing at the moment, we are regarding now the act of forgiving) and so it is necessary for all to understand that there will be errors made by you, the imperfect mortal; that this error is not a reason for fear or guilt or shame to the degree that it shuts you off from the First Source and Center.

If there is a time when this occurs for you, you will find it is most difficult for you to even approach or feel you can approach conversation with the First Source and Center. If this becomes the case do not try to seek silence for any length of time, but rather ask in a short prayer frequently for many days that you can resolve your shame and guilt and that in that resolving you can come to the place where stillness can be again a welcome part of your day. In asking for this to happen you in no wise change God, but rather you are slowly changing your own attitude and perspective so that you are not jeopardizing your own soul growth by cutting yourself off from the Source.

This has gone beyond the scope of your question but a necessary understanding, I felt, was needed. Has your question been answered suitably?"

Norman: "Yes it has. And I thank you for your extra clarification. And I look forward to also reading it in the transcript. Thank you all."

Daniel: "You are most welcome my friend."

Bill: "I know we are overtime, Daniel, but I have been requested by others on the internet that are posting to the Teaching Mission list and the Urantial that a lesson from Daniel could be, what was the term they used, 'hot off the press'. And I am asking your permission or your opinion about whether this lesson merits distribution through that medium."

Daniel: "As intelligent and clear thinking individuals, most days,(laughter) I will leave this to your discretion. Our lessons are given that the brothers and sisters below us in time and space can be supported and guided in the mystery and wonderment of the seven superuniverses and the glorious aspect of Paradise, but most importantly in the personal relationship to the First Source and Center. If you feel these proceedings tonight would bring an individual closer to that personal relationship, then I have no objection. Tomas?"

Tomas: "I have no objection either except for the fact that Daniel spoke more than I did!!(chuckling) Even so I am pleased to be part of this marvelous process and in fact this gives me an opportunity to add my two cents which has to do with humility, for forgiveness requires humility. And from this process of forgiving through humility you gain strength of character. And it is with a certain amount of strength of character that I allow a witticism now and then. So, certainly, plant the seeds; spread the gospel of Michael."

Daniel: "It has been a long evening and with tongue in cheek, again, I will allow Tomas to close this meeting."

Tomas: "My gracious friends, it is an honor, as always, to be one with you and to investigate the realms of growth in the deep mind. We are all so pleased with the entire process which is evolving and unfolding. Trust our affirmation that the spiritual circuitry is abounding far and near. Your efforts are all recorded on high and are a testimony to your own developing souls. I humbly bid you farewell."

END